Curse

LordEusebiusDragonslayer · Jul 31, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Greetings all,

I just posted a long note (or thought I did until now) asking about the differences between Everquest and GW. Very briefly, I am a former EQ player (65 Paladin with 150 AAs; 51 Cleric; 50 Druid; 20 Monk; and a wide assortment of other lower-level classes/races). I am interested in gaining the perspective of former/current EQ players who are now/also playing GW. I have not yet played GW, but am highly interested in joining. From what I have read, it seems the perfect game for me.

Things I love about EQ are: (1) the world; (2) the graphics; (3) first-person view; (4) the economy system; (5) the quests. Things I hate are: it's been hijacked by obnoxious and socially challenged adolescence who are interested only in getting to the highest level as quickly as possible and know absolutely nothing about role playing, community, societal mores, or common courtesy.

I would like to get the perspective of anyone who is familiar with the two games. What are the strengths and weaknesses of each? What can I expect from GW as a former EQ player? Thanks!

Red Sonya · Jul 31, 2005, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Hrmmm comparison of EQ and GW's. A heck of a lot More for your time spent would be my first statement. Everything comes at a very fast pace in this game, though there is still a very decent grind for skills and attribute points even after obtaining the cap level 20. Much like the AA's of EQ, but, not quite as detailed or restrictive.

I played EQ for near 5 years and I enjoy GW's so much I would never go back to the longggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg grind that either of the EQ's are. Plus this game is FREE, so none of that $15 a month bs either.

Now as far as the dweebs that will use gamey tactics or exploit around the mechanics of the game, well those are in every mmo or mmorpg. They are just too lazy to play the game as intended and will use every scam, bot, cheat, hacks, use other players to run them to high level places they don't belong, etc., whatever to get beyond the normal regular players. But, even so, they really don't have much power in the game like in the other MMORPG's. Oh they get a good head start, but, the thing about GW's everything is obtainable by anyone and everyone, and we all know that wasn't so with EQ or EQ2.

You don't have to have groups of humans to aquire a lot of the high content or quality content. You do have to have human groups in a couple of areas like the Underword and FOW. Think of those two zones like a guild raid of EQ, but, only 8 people max. They have nerfed the noobs and lowbies out of these areas and we (I) expect them to nerf a couple more areas to certain levels of characters since some of these people are rushing to high level areas for the armor and weapons so they can dominate the newbie and mid level arenas.

The PVE game to me is much like a Diablo story or Neverwinter Nights or Dungeon Siege, it's a pretty huge world to explore, but, it's not an EQ size world by a long shot, and everything is instanced for the individual or individual group, so you will never have those statements "this is my spot or those are my spawns", or have anyone KS anything in your instanced area. Loot is dropped and if in a group it goes in a sequential order, like DAOC, each player will get something and the drops I've seen in groups have been reasonable for everyone, where just about everyone got something decent.

You can play most of this game entirely with NPC henchmen/women, or you can mix and match. I've played through most all of the content with henchies alone and if you are skilled and intelligent there's just not many areas you couldn't play with the henchies and make it through.

There is no player crafting system, everything is basically dropped and traded usually in Ascalon Post Searing District 1 or District 2 or from/by a npc merchant. But, there is a fluctuating economy from the material npc merchants where all the salvage materials you have will have high and low prices the merchants will buy and sell them for. This was something EQ never had.

Recent news show they are highly looking into creating some form of bazaar/trading area where you can put your goods either into an NPC or some machine and sell them while you are adventuring to eliminate this need to stand and hawk your items for hours at a time sometimes.

You can forget "camping" like you did in EQ, you run through a zone in this one like Dungeon Siege, they are fairly linear, though there are a few off the path places to explore, but, not very large. I've yet to play in an area where things "respawn" though I've heard this mentioned. The zones I have played once you've killed the mobs they are gone, dead, kaput and don't respawn until you play that zone/mission/area again, this much like Diablo/2.

There are literally 1000's of quests and everyone can do them and get them and if the whole group has the quest, everyone in the group gets the quest reward, much like DAOC here also. The quests alone will level you very fast.
It doesn't take long to reach level 20. Even a noob could do it within a month easy, even being a noob. hehe

The main thing about GW's is really geared toward PVP, though there is a great PVE game, it's the PVP world that really makes this game shine. There are all types of arenas and Guild Wars and Hall of Hero Tournaments for fame and rank. One has many options of how they want to play PVP and no one will ever gank you cause you are a level 1 and they are level 20, there's none of that in GW's. Though there are those as I mentioned above that will get rides to high level areas for the armor and then come back to the low level arenas to dominate not only PVP but also the PVE game. I think this will be fixed quite soon.

You will still find your whinners and complainers though as is much to be expected when you have 100's of thousands of people playing and everyone wanting the game to be the way "they" want it to be. Just have to live with that and jump in there and whine and complain with them or heckle them of course if you don't agree with them.

To me this is what MMORPG's should be, pretty fast fun and satisfaction from each hour played instead of taking many years played and still never see 1/2 the content. I'd have to say if you played GW's a year and didn't see all the content, you weren't trying to.

Role playing isn't a big aspect of this game, but, there are people who will roleplay, some are even asking for a roleplaying specified district which I think is good if that's what they want. But, just like in other mmorpg's you'll still have your outsiders that will come into these districts and try to disrupt it or not roleplay.

Of all the mmorpgs I've played this one is truely the best. I would never go back to any of the old style mmorpgs after playing this. This brings instant satisfaction at really no cost. Just time and patience, certainly no monthly fees.

Guilds are much more fun to be in than in EQ also, there are no pressures and I've never seen so many helpful people and those willing to just give you stuff from the game to help you out. EQ made people greedy and hogish I think, many guilds I joined were just so the higher elites had an army to get their Epic weapons and then they would disappear when the lower levels reached epic level status. I don't see the greed in this game at all, it is just too easy to aquire money in this game, only the truely lazy or jealous or stupid would have need to buy anything from ebay or complain about the lack of income from this game.

This is one of those games that's just going to get better with time, more expansions, more neat loot, more professions. It's in it's youth now and is very popular, right up there with WOW I would think. Might not have 2 million subscribers like WOW has but it has quite enough to enjoy it like a mmorpg.

knives · Jul 31, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Thats a really long post Red Sonya.

Btw, I believe I've partied with you with my necro, Roxy Moonscarr during the ascalon missions once or twice.

Nazutul · Jul 31, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

I played EQ for 3 years. And I can tell you the main difference between EQ and GW is content. Theres alot more content in EQ. GW is a great game, but the PvE is lacking from and EverQuester's standpoint. Doing anything in GW takes a fraction of the time it would in EQ. GW has instant teleportation to any town, no waiting for ports. Level grind is almost non-existant. Weapons/armor aren't nearly as cool. But alot of the differences occur because of pvp balancing. But don't get me wrong, I love GW. I grind on GW like I used to in EQ and I'm siting on a mountain of platinum, 15k Armors, perfect weaps, etc, etc.

Another plus, I had an advantage going into GW from playing EQ. Alot of what I know about PvE is really just modified EQ know-how. It's pretty cool, you should probably give it a try.

ONE LAST WARNING! If you're expecting to replicate your original EQ experience with GW, you will be sorely dissapointed. If you want EQ, then get EQ2. I would do it but don't have the time, and I don't wanna pay the $10 a month.

Cat Tabby · Jul 31, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

if you are hoping to avoid the obnoxious adolescents you will be dissappointed; they are on GW in abundance.

LordEusebiusDragonslayer · Jul 31, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Thank you to everyone for the perspectives, especially to Red Sonya.

To Nazutul: EQ2 would not be an option for me. Not only am I unwilling to fork over anymore of my hard-earned money to Sony, but from what I have read the EQ2 world does not even measure up to the EQ1 world.

I do have some questions for anyone about GW.

1. Is it true that all missions are instanced, so that you never really encounter a "real world" of people? One of the things I liked about the EQ world is that I could travel the world helping lower levels who were on the verge of dying.

2. As a Paladin in EQ, I had a lot of fin against undead. Since there is no Paladin class per se in GW, what is the replacement? Warrior/Monk? Is there a "slay undead" class in GW?

3. As a Paladin in EQ, I owned aggro ability. No one could pull a mob off me, including warriors and even shadow knights (curse be to that dark class). Since I could hold aggro so well, I was often invited to a group in place of a warrior as the main tank. But I have been reading that the warrior class in GW does not hold aggro particularly well. Is that true?

Thanks for the information.

Zelc · Jul 31, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

1. Is it true that all missions are instanced, so that you never really encounter a "real world" of people? One of the things I liked about the EQ world is that I could travel the world helping lower levels who were on the verge of dying.

It's true. Towns are not instanced (although there are multiple districts), so you can still meet up with and help out newbies. However, all of the non-town areas are instanced. That means you can't help out lower levels the way you can in EQ, but it also eliminates kill stealing, spawn camping, and the random PKs.

Quote:

2. As a Paladin in EQ, I had a lot of fin against undead. Since there is no Paladin class per se in GW, what is the replacement? Warrior/Monk? Is there a "slay undead" class in GW?

There's not a specific "anti-undead" class in GW, since the Undead are kind of focused in one or two areas only. Such a class would be gimped for the rest of the game. However, Undead do take more damage from holy attacks, so a Warrior/Monk with Judge's Insight (turns weapon damage to holy damage and adds some armor penetration) or a Monk using smiting skills (IMO, Healing Monk is way more party-friendly) would do well against Undead.

Quote:

3. As a Paladin in EQ, I owned aggro ability. No one could pull a mob off me, including warriors and even shadow knights (curse be to that dark class). Since I could hold aggro so well, I was often invited to a group in place of a warrior as the main tank. But I have been reading that the warrior class in GW does not hold aggro particularly well. Is that true?

In Guild Wars, there is not a well-defined "aggro" value. Mobs tend to aggro Monks first, then other casters, then Rangers, and finally Warriors. However, mobs also tend to go for only those they can "see", or those within their aggro radius. Therefore, while there are no skills to increase your aggro, tactics will make sure that the Warriors, who often but not always have the highest armor values, take the hits. For example, you can have the Warrior go ahead of the rest of the party by more than an aggro circle's radius. Then, when mobs rush in to take attack the Warrior, they will not "see" the other party members in the back, and thus would stick to the Warrior. Once stuck, they won't come unstuck unless the Warrior moves around or they move/get knocked down. Also, all mobs and characters are solid, so if you see a mob bee-lining for your Monks, you can put yourself between the mob and the Monk and the mob will probably attack you instead.

Unfortunately, many pubs are idiots and refuse to listen to tactics, but that can't be helped.

EDIT: By the way, the true defining point of Guild Wars is the excellent PvP system. It has the best and most balanced PvP system of any MMORPG out there. True, there are a few skills that are probably overpowered (*cough*Nature's Renewal*cough*), but I'll be willing to bet that ANet is closely looking at them and will make adjustments if it is shown to be too good. Unlike other RPGs, one can be somewhat competitive without playing any PvE at all, and it doesn't take nearly as long as other RPGs to get all the best stuff. If you do decide to buy this game, I HIGHLY recommend that you cover all 6 professions using 3 character slots (i.e. Monk/War + Rang/Mes + Nec/Ele or Rang/Nec + Monk/Mes + War/Ele, etc.), which frees up your fourth slot for a PvP only character you can delete and remake at will. This affords you the ultimate flexibility in making PvP characters (they start at level 20 and has any skills, weapons, and runes you've unlocked, but can only go into the PvP zones). Then join a guild and have fun doing some Tombs/Guild vs. Guild (shameless plug: The Amazon Basin is a great guild for both PvErs and PvPers. www.theamazonbasin.com).

LordEusebiusDragonslayer · Aug 02, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Thanks Zelc, that is very helpful. I will probably still buy and try GW and make the comparison myself. Personally, I'm just looking for a way to bide my time until the release of LOTR Online next year : ). But if this turns out to be an enjoyable experience, I will stick with it as well.

kyeo138 · Aug 02, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Lord, the best thing about GW is that you can buy it, and play it only when you feel like it without feeling bad because there's no monthly fee. If you played for a month, got to level 20, and then took some time off, you still wouldn't "be behind" any of the consistent players. That's one of the reasons I love GW.

Enigmatics · Aug 02, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Tabby

if you are hoping to avoid the obnoxious adolescents you will be dissappointed; they are on GW in abundance.

If you were hoping to sound objective and witty; it didn't work. Especially since you couldn't pull off the one "S" in disappointed.

I believe this is the wrong board for such a topic.

jesh · Aug 02, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I think he/she was just pointing out a fact, no offense intended to anyone. It is a fact.
I have met a lot of adolescents that were very nice and enjoyable to be around.

I'm afraid they're outnumbered by the people that think it's funny to make your party lose the mission, or are convinced that they don't need to be on the radar of your monk to be healed. There are a ton of idiots that play this game...

However, in my opinion it's worth it. GW is definetely an enjoybale experience.

Oh, and there are people that do play completely solo. Not even henchmen. It's possible.